it’s love that does us in

Vern (rhymes with fern). lady person, late twenties, midwestern, invested in fictional narratives, kittu9 on AO3. kind of a goober, tbh.

currently into: alternate universes, arrow, brooklyn 99, contemporary art, elementary, feminism, fierce ladies, talking about all of the above.

 

chevronlocked replied to your post “In the immortal words of jaegermighty, “yooooooo” I had a media dinner…”

Bletchley!! They announced a few days ago we’re not getting a season three and I’m so bitter. :(

what, that is terrible news and i am devastated. :( :( :(

tomatocages asked
Hi, I saw your continuation of my Arrow tailspin and was curious--can you elaborate on why you think Felicity is being selfish in the context of her comment about her resume? I didn't get that vibe, but would love to know why you thought that. :)

lisabelleoftheball:

The fact that she brought up putting bomber under special skills on her resume just brings up the fact that she is jobless now that Oliver lost his company.  And Felicity being practical means she knows she needs a job.   And u don’t talk about your resume unless you are looking for a job, right?  Then there is the scene when Oliver goes to his office and talks to Isabell.  Felicity isn’t there being an assistant anymore.  But that is a very small part of her asking him not to go.  It does have more to do with looking out for Oliver himself then her not having a job.  The way she talks about “his family losing all their assets”  would never make me believe she’s being selfish without that little thing in the beginning.  There was also the 1st epi. in season 2 where her and Diggle bring Oliver back and she mentions being out of a job b/c of the hostile takeover.

That’s an interesting interpretation. Thanks for elaborating. I have a different take—I’m not saying you’re wrong here, but since my interpretation of that scenario seems wildly different, I thought I’d explain. (For context, here’s my meta, with lisabelleoftheball's commentary below.)

Let’s briefly consider how “updating a resume” is used in the Arrow Universe: Sara says something like “it’s kind of hard to put international assassin on a resume” when she gets the job at Verdant, which is one of the more touching moments of realism in the show. That’s an interesting element of the whole “five years on an island” schtick; no job history, and all of your special skill are straight up horrible.

With no way to explain the gap, an unfinished education, and a need for some financial assistance (wouldn’t Sara have some assets from her work with the League? Or did she make a grand gesture and leave all those things behind?), she likely would have had trouble getting work if she didn’t know someone in the biz, so to speak.

Likewise, let’s look at Felicity: went to MIT, strongly self-identified as “an IT girl” in season one, has previously only engaged in information-gathering missions. She has a lot of professional and technical pride in her skill set. Felicity strikes me as the sort of person who updates the “special skills” section of her resume as she develops skills, not just when she has an active job search (disclosure: I could be projecting, because I do the same thing).

So that tendency to value and curate her skill set, combined with her nervousness, makes her resume comment more an attempt to lighten the mood than a statement of intent. We know Felicity’s stream of consciousness is related to her surface thoughts (it’s not just innuendo), and we also know that blowing up building—even if they make sure everyone is out—is a terrorist act. That has enormous ramifications for how Felicity will be prosecuted if they are ever caught, because she is also by definition a cyberterrorist. Oliver and Digg? Murderers, sure, but the American justice system has a different approach to terrorists.

Felicity, by virtue of her non-violent involvement, is a more dangerous individual. We joke about it a lot in fandom and tasb, but Felicity can destroy lives; Oliver just takes lives. Her potential for harm has more insidious connotations, which is why it’s so important that she is, at her core, a good person.

So when you consider that Felicity has made the choice to escalate her involvement in the field (I love that we know she made the choice, that she has agency—you can make choices and still be terrified by the consequences), it makes sense that she is so nervous during the bombing run. It makes sense that she will try and self-talk some clinical rational about wiring a bomb to a building. She’s engaged in a serious criminal act, even if for what she perceives as a good, moral reason. Stopping Slade is a noble effort; he’s a monster and he’s targeting people, using other people as weapons without their consent.

Slade appears to have no moral compass, no motivation beyond revenge (and we know how Felicity thinks of revenge as a motivation. Specifically, she thinks it’s a bad motivation, and she thinks there is “a better way.” It all comes together!).

Because Felicity believes she is saving the city and the people Slade will destroy—and that means Oliver and his family and everyone else who got roped into Slade’s revenge game, even and I think especially those convicts—she thinks the bomb play is noble. And it is noble: but it also means that her belief in the cause makes her that much more of a terrorist.

There is no way she’ll literally put “bomb technician” on her resume, though I’ll buy your argument that she can break the skill down to a mechanical level and list those skills.

So no, I don’t think she’s being selfish for making that joke. If she is polishing up her resume and looking for a new job, that’s not selfish either.

Until she met Oliver, Felicity was a regular person. That means she has regular needs: housing, food, transportation, her Anthropologie habit. She needs, very rationally, to have a job to pay for these things. We don’t know if she has student loans or a mortgage, we don’t know if her mother took on a debt that she’s repaying—but if she came from a single-parent home, she likely grew up with financial difficulties. If you grow up without money, you tend to make sure you have what you need to survive, especially if you also lack familial or romantic companionship and love. Taking care of Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs is a responsible thing to do!

And the funny thing is, even when she jokes about her resume or how she’s going to make a living, she’s focused more on OLIVER’S hierarchy of needs than she is on her own. This is sort of like helping someone else with their oxygen mask before you put on your own.

If anything, Oliver is way less of an adult that Felicity. He’s a trust fund kid with no education aside from the school of hard knocks (I’m not saying he needs to go to college to be a functional person, but he has very few core skills, like math and critical thinking). He has no job training (see: terrible CEO, see also: nepotism). That means his real-world skills are directly tied to his access to money and his family’s name-brand recognition. His work as the vigilante also depends on those resources. (I sincerely doubt that he pays Diggle and Felicity for the vigilante work, but he likely absorbs associated expenses not covered by Felicity’s refurbishment of the space.) It’s interesting that we often read Oliver’s motivations as less selfish than Felicity’s, because he’s less worried about money. That’s not nobility on his part; that’s a response that’s only possible because he’s part of the wealthy elite. He can afford to “rise above” those concerns because he’s never had to be concerned about it. 

So let’s recap: Oliver takes away her job without asking and then doesn’t actually care enough to do the job at QC that allows her to function in her new role. I’m not counting the Team Arrow work against him: that’s Felicity’s choice. But the fact remains, Felicity is not the one being selfish and self-oriented, here. She’s just the only one who thinks about probable solutions. 

In the immortal words of jaegermighty, “yooooooo” I had a media dinner that went late (like, I got home at 11:30 pm) and I missed Arrow, a link for future reference would be greatly appreciated.

(Also PS effie214 I’m rewatching Bletchley Circle so YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS it means i love u and I’m writing that AU.)

The following is an Arrow AU idea that I tacked onto the end of meta post (I know, poor planning). Because it’s GREAT IDEA, i’m reposting it here, for ease of access. this is not self-promotion, it is a public service.

Wanted: an AU where Oliver remains undercover after returning from the island and has to become the vigilante on a shoestring budget. Did someone say something about him working at a florist? He works at a florist. He meets Diggle when Digg is buying flowers for Carly’s wedding anniversary. I can see it now. Thrift stores. omg.

(addendum: terse conversations in the flower cooler while Oliver hauls in the new shipment of roses! “It’s wedding season, Diggle, I can’t have plans tonight!” Sneaking into society weddings! Felicity having to buy flowers “for her desk” whenever she has information because Oliver can’t check his phone when he’s wrist-deep in oasis! these arrangements take time!)

bethanyactually contributes the following: ^^^I would also like that AU, please. THRIFT STORES. (I think I read a short fic with the premise that Oliver remained undercover after returning from the island, actually. I don’t remember who wrote it, though…)

for the record, i am pretty sure we’re thinking of something by jaegermighty

The interesting thing here is that Felicity’s not actually being selfish here, or isn’t being selfish in an “I want you to consider my feelings first” emotional exchange sort of way—her request is not really about herself. My read is that she’s asking Oliver to be selfish. (But Oliver is ALWAYS selfish, Vern! Yeah, he kinda is, but this is different.)

Felicity understands money in a way Oliver does not, specifically: she understands that his vigilante life will be very different and very difficult without his financial resources. Because she knows the value of a dollar and because she knows (intimately!) the cost of outfitting their lair, she’s aware that Oliver losing his financial backing means the team loses financial backing. Even if she invested the money he gave her before he left, she’s used a fair chunk of change to make his renewed quest possible, and a million dollars—no matter how you invest it—is a far cry from billions.

Additionally, Oliver’s social capital is a factor. Because he’s a wealthy, white, socially influential man, he has a lot of cachet that lets him get away with what would otherwise be suspicious behavior (see: running around at night wearing a hoodie, basically). Without money, the story people start telling about Oliver is a very different, much less permissive narrative. He’s less special and less acceptable, and when you have as little regard for crafting a believable alibi as Oliver Queen does, you’ll end up in hot water.

Thea’s refusal to sign those papers—and the Queen family’s subsequent financial ruin—would mean that Oliver could no longer fund his secret life, and that he would no longer enjoy the same level of social access that he did as a CEO or a socialite. That means he’s not invited to parties, he won’t have access to rare heirloom jewelry, he can’t constantly replace his motorcycle when he drives it down the stairs, he can’t upgrade or replace equipment—money paves the way for Oliver to be what he is. He has never been in a situation where his lack of money affects his circumstances—on the island, money wouldn’t have helped, and before the island, it was abstract, because it was a get-out-of-jail-free card. Take away the money and the weight behind his family name, and keep the responsibilities he’s been juggling lately, and Oliver becomes a very minor player with major problems.

Felicity’s reaction here is phrased so that Oliver can shift the burden of responsibility onto her—“don’t hate me,” she says, when (in my mind) she’s really saying, “I will help you make this decision if you will let me, because I am thinking on a different level.”

It’s certainly emotional, and Felicity certainly seems to view Thea as a Very Important Person in this scenario. We don’t know why Felicity places so much weight on Thea’s needs, we just know that Felicity is willing to invest a lot in Thea’s well-being. Is she projecting her own abandonment issues onto Thea? Is she aware of how Thea could be an advocate for Team Arrow? I don’t know, but it’s clear that in this situation, Felicity is making sure that Oliver is fully informed as to his options—and that he’s informed as to her opinion regarding his options.

it’s interesting to note that Felicity has consistently had a better “big picture” notion of events—she has to, because she’s piecing information together in real time, and because she is processing a lot of raw information. Her conclusions are flawed because Oliver is withholding information that will allow her to refine her methods—but it’s pretty clear from this scene that Felicity is looking at the potential for fallout and deciding that drawing Oliver’s frustration is a better bet than having to completely rehab their attack on Slade. They’re already at a disadvantage, and she’s trying to keep the playing field as level as possible. If she can protect Thea at the same time, and maintain an environment that will better protect her friends? Felicity will do it.

(By the way, wanted: an AU where Oliver remains undercover after returning from the island and has to become the vigilante on a shoestring budget. Did someone say something about him working at a florist? He works at a florist. He meets Diggle when Digg is buying flowers for Carly’s wedding anniversary. I can see it now. Thrift stores. omg.)

(Source: peetahales)